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"His story is her story. Her story is his story."
The image of Emmett Till's mutilated corpse, murdered by white supremacists in 1955, changed the course of the Civil Rights movement. That change came because of Mamie Till, Emmett's mother, who, despite her personal tragedy, knew what it could do for others. "She is the progenitor of a civil rights legacy that allowed for so many other acts of activism to occur," says Danielle Deadwyler, who plays Mamie in Till (in theaters, October 14). The role was "the hardest thing I've ever had to do," says Deadwyler. She and director Chinonye Chukwu "understood the weight of the work is beyond just making a piece of cinema, it's beyond just making a piece of art, it's a conversation with the world." While "Emmett walked into a cesspool of racial division," it was the "glorious bravery" of Mamie "to go into that fire and to come out of it, and then to go back into her own community and to educate....We are forever indebted to her because of that." Ultimately, Deadwyler hopes people leave Till recognizing "how courageous and bold you can be in the darkest of times."
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How did this part come your way?
The same way any other role has come, via an audition. And I was like,'Oh my goodness, can I even do this?' Some stuff comes in, you immediately know, this is wheelhouse, but some stuff comes in and it's terrifying. So I reject it. I keep saying I didn't want to do it, but it's less about not wanting to do it and more about the fear of what it will do to you. I knew just how significant this historical moment is in our American history, let alone Black American history and global history. It's a weight, right? And who's trying to put on more weight? So I skirted it a lot. I took my time with it, ingesting what it would mean to do this kind of work. And so I auditioned.
Thankfully you did and you got it! I can imagine the weight of the project is a lot to hold, especially because so much of it falls on your shoulders.
In the aftermath it's her. And his story is her story. Her story is his story. It was a daunting task for her, she talks about it in her memoir, it being that and what that does to the body and what that does to the mind, and the kind of symbol she became. I think this is the exploration of [lifting] the veil behind the curtain. What is going on for this human being? It's a horrifying thing to consider but it is a beautiful thing to consider as well because you realize what change can do for you. How change can open you up even in the midst of a tragedy, right? Because she was the waterfall movement of what would come. What arose as a result of her actions, as a result of her standing, as a result of her incessantly sharing her story. It changed America.
And of course we know the story, but we don't know her. This is the first big project on her. What about her stood out to you?
She was intent on being a stand up kind of person in the community, right? A woman of the community and of her family. She had a legacy of being smart. That's just who she was, it was from childhood. She pushed to put that in everything she did, being the first Black person that was working at the organization she was working at. Just the connection to the church and the way she handled herself. These people are financially there. They're jumping their family lineage forward. Coming from Mississippi and being able to do the things that they were doing. And yet, when you blanket yourself off from where you've come from, this whole experience became a relearning of she was and who her family was and how we are indelibly connected. Regardless of class dynamics, she didn't want to be a nobody anymore. Because I assuredly know, she believed herself to be a somebody. In the midst of growing up being learned in the way that she was, and prospering the way she did—she made more money than the white family that did this to her, right? She presented prosperity beyond what they were experiencing. And yet to have this notion, this kind of clarity of mind to come to that. I just think she's just a marvelous human being who understood change. We don't appreciate change, we reject it so much in this country. Emmett walked into a cesspool of racial division. He walked into a Mississippi that was post-Brown v. Board of Education, he walked into a Mississippi that was killing Black people because they were pushing for voter rights, he walked into a place that did not want Black men interfacing with white women in any way. And so I think the glorious bravery that she had to step down into that cesspool, to go into that fire, and to come out of it, and then to go back into her own community and to educate. So she went from being someone who aspired to be prosperous in one way, and became wholly much more elevated in another way, which was much more deeply grounded and connected to people. We are forever indebted to her because of that.
She was very aware of the moment and what it meant, and to have that kind of awareness amid such tragedy is so empowering. At Emmett's funeral she says over his casket that he's now everybody's son, that he doesn't just belong to her.
She's just a flow of transcendence. She had the wherewithal to recognize that everyone's child is her child. And so if my son is everyone's son, and then everyone's child is my child, therefore, I have to advocate for everyone with regard to what is happening to me.
The weight of that is so heavy and it's something that I don't think a lot of non-marginalized people can easily see, that as a community we have a responsibility.
Right. She is the progenitor of a Civil Rights legacy that allowed for so many other acts of activism to occur, women's rights, moving towards this legacy of trans rights, like all of these things are intertwined. They're intersecting. And that comes from a statement she said, if anyone's rights are compromised, everybody's rights are compromised. That's not the right quote, but it's in there. Everyone is connected and community is the grander thing that we need to be chasing. Not American individualism.
Also it isn't lost on me that this story, focused on one of history's most iconic Black women, was also directed by one of today's most prominent Black female directors. What was it like working with Chinonye Chukwu?
Okay. So this is the hardest thing that I've ever had to do, right? Just historically, emotionally, physically. It's not an action thriller, or anything, but it is deeply impactful on the body, on the mind. I went in with a hyper precision based approach, digging into historical documents and visuals. I talked to anybody and everybody I could about this work, academic and artistic. We surveyed every page together, every indentation, every period, every beat, every quality of this script has been dug into together. And on this road, the overt things and the quiet subtle things, she's just the kind of partner you want, the kind of collaborator you want, who is loving and efficient and sharp and unrelenting on getting to the heart of every quality of work. We just had that kind of rapport, that back and forth from the jump, from the audition phase, to be quite honest. We both understood the weight of the work is beyond just making a piece of cinema, it's beyond just making a piece of art, it's a conversation with the world, right? And that's the difference between other works. Every project has its own quality to it, this just required so much more. And it definitely had a spiritual component, a deep intuitive spirit about what was to occur.
The news of the discovery of the arrest warrant for Carolyn Bryant Donham, Emmett's accuser, sheds new light on the case and will certainly impact the way people watch this story. How do you think the recent news about the case will impact the film?
Assuredly. I mean, it's not a surprise, right? We know what white terrorism does, we know what it did, we know that it persists in doing that. It has a way of trying to play hooky on you. You know, 'I wouldn't do that.' It's not trying to trick you, but it can't, because it's the same damn thing. And so in the way that they're trying to incessantly paint a new coating over education and history. That's exactly what that was. They were painting back then. They're painting then they're painting now. So you have to know these stories in order to combat what kind of holes they're trying to put over the next generation's eyes. We're always talking about the youth right? This story is about a youth, the story is about the joy and love that he had and how it was squashed, how it was stolen. And so trying to steal the truth from young people trying to come up, that just gives more validity to the fact that we people need to see this film to have this conversation. It's not just about watching loss or trauma, it is about understanding the reverence for one's own life. Upholding that life so that everyone can be aware of it, so that everyone can celebrate what it is and what it was.
What do you hope people ultimately take from the film?
I hope that people are in the business of others. I think that's the greatest knowledge that she came to and that made me come to, as much as it is about learning about oneself, how courageous and bold you can be in the darkest of times, extending outward is what our minds want to do. Even though we are gravely fearful, right? The pandemic has taught us that we do obviously not like sitting at home, they don't want to do it. Now we've got 50 million diseases out here, we have so much turmoil and challenge and yet, connecting and joy and protecting and preserving each other's humanity is so imperative and we cannot lose sight of that. There's a symbol tattooed on my chest, it's about looking back, you look back and you circle back around and keep going forward. It's a constant rounding of the self, you look back to continue forward. It's not stagnant, it's constant movement. So embracing that kind of change and connection is what I hope people come away with.
Listen to H. Alan Scott's full conversation with Danielle Deadwyler on Newsweek's Parting Shot. Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Twitter: @HAlanScott
