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"From the very beginning, I made a choice that I was going to become the best I could be, and I was going to make it impossible for them to say no."
For Oscar-winner Kathy Bates, "it's all about the work." And lately, she's been working a lot. In the reimagining of CBS' Matlock, Bates plays Madeline Matlock, a woman rejoining the workforce at a prestigious law firm in her senior years. The first season of the show, which "has caught fire with 10 million people," says Bates, is such a success that CBS has already renewed it for a second season. "I feel grateful to play the role. I feel grateful to have this opportunity. I'm just thrilled with the numbers." Those numbers represent a portion of society who might feel unseen. "The boomer generation has been pushed to the side. But in fact, we are a powerful force to be reckoned with." While Bates says she was "absolutely terrified" to see her face on a billboard, she's aware this moment in her career is rare. "To have this happen is just absolutely unreal." "From the very beginning, I knew that the work speaks for itself. I made a choice that I was going to become the best I could be, and I was going to make it impossible for them to say no, because of what I could do as an actor."
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Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.
How do you feel about the response to Matlock?
It's been astounding. I can't believe it. That first day or two when we realized everything was so great and the numbers were wonderful and they kept climbing, we were just, I remember standing out in the sun outside the studio with Eric Christian Olsen [executive producer], and I wanna be excited about it, I do want to be excited, but at the same time, it was kind of scary, you know? It's like, wow, we're climbing so high, we're climbing so fast, what is going to happen? And, and then he just said, "We just have to enjoy this fleeting moment, because it really is magnificent." I've just never experienced anything like this.
What makes it so sweet is that there is the underdog nature to your success, and I think fans are responding to that with the show and this character.
I never thought about that, but maybe that's true. She's clawing her way back, certainly for her daughter, of course, but she's got a lot of gumption to do this. I can't imagine actually doing this. I do identify with her in many, many ways. She just fits me. I just fit her. We go together, and I feel so centered in her. I don't sometimes think Jennie [Snyder Urman, creator and showrunner] lives in my head. So many of the things that Matty goes through, I've been through, or I'm thinking about, it's just been absolutely incredible.
Of course, her age is a big part of this character and how she navigates through the show. How does it feel to have that character seen in the way she's seen, and then also, indirectly have you seen, too?
I can't explain it. I really can't. I just don't know how all of this happened. I don't know how I was able to do it. I don't know how it came about. I really felt my career was coming to an end and I've seen other actresses my age who do feel invisible. I went through an experience with an actor, I don't want to say their name, but we got together for photographs of us in our costumes, and her costumes didn't fit her at all. This was a woman who had an astounding career, and she was quite hurt by that. Did they not know her size? Did they not know her measurements or whatever? And it was really a humiliation for her. I was astounded by that. And in a way, I look back at that, and I think in some ways she was invisible to them, but I think also, all of us are invisible when it comes down to it. What power do we have when it came to the things in our lives, or much less the world around us? So I think we can all relate to that. I feel grateful to play the role. I feel grateful to have this opportunity. I'm certainly just thrilled with the numbers. I can't believe all of that. And to be a woman, as you say, of a certain age, to have this happen is just, it's unreal, it's absolutely unreal.
It also should be noted that older Americans are not only impactful at the ballot box, but they also are a big part of the economy, they watch television, they're engaged.
The boomer generation has sort of been pushed to the side. But in fact, we are a powerful force to be reckoned with, as you say, certainly elections and being a voting force. I don't want to get too down about things. I have a friend whose mother is on the downward slope, so to speak. And I saw Jessica Tandy go through that. We were going to do something else together and she couldn't remember lines anymore, and I wonder if that'll happen to me. When will that happened to me as I get older? So to have this reprieve from the thoughts of that and to delight in [Matty's] cleverness, her passion, her wisdom, but also she screws up, she makes mistakes.
You've certainly been an actor who is able to blend character roles with lead roles. And this character, very much a lead, is also very much a character role. Why do you think you've been able to navigate the different types of roles you've had over the years?
Well, it's all about the work. I've been given the roles to play, like Libby Holden in Primary Colors was a character role. It's always about the work, it doesn't matter about whether it's a lead or whether it's supporting. Unless the character is not interesting and I'm having to accept a job because I need the work—which I think is unfortunately true for a lot of actresses, but [for me] it's only been about the work. I think from the very beginning, I knew that the work speaks for itself, and I made a choice that I was going to become the best I could be, and I was going to make it impossible for them to say no, because of what I could do as an actor. So that was what was important to me. I know it's very important to actors to be leads.
And look, when I saw them with the marketing and my face up on the billboard, suddenly I just was absolutely terrified. I mean, I loved the marketing. I think they've been brilliant, but when I saw it was me up there, I have to say, I had a big gulp. And I try not to think about that. But more and more, I realized that I've got to represent the show and do it well, and I can't let my guard down with people other than you, quite frankly; we've been able to talk about things in a different way, and so I don't know, it's just about the work. And even as we were all coming back to work, we were standing out in the sun for a while because we hadn't been called to set, feeling the glow of everything, and I said something really dreary that just drove everybody crazy. I said, "In the days of Rome, when the conquering heroes came back in their chariots in these huge parades into Rome, they always had a slave in the chariot with the conquerors whispering in their ear saying, ' sic transit gloria mundi,' which means all glory is fleeting," and suddenly it cleared the room. Like, "Thanks an effing lot. We really appreciate that you're bringing us down." But then we went back in and got to work on the scene, and Kat Coiro [director] said the same thing. She said, "Okay, the work got us here. The work is going to keep us here. Let's get to work." It is the work. It's the work that we're all challenged and excited by.
It's wonderful to see the passion of the young actors. And that's what's been so exciting about this, that our work, the thing that we're the most passionate about, has caught fire with 10 million people.
With so many of your roles, like Matlock and Misery, you have in many ways redefined what a leading lady can be. Do you feel like you've changed or had an impact on how people view leading ladies?
Oh, I don't think I have. Thank you very much, but I don't think that ever will be true. I think we all want that fantasy of being youthful and beautiful and people go to the movies wanting to see that. As I said before, just getting the roles just happened to me, so I didn't have any control over that. I just had to be ready. And so that's the other reason why I love doing this. Look, it's great to be the lead in this. It really is. And I just love the fact that, because I've done the digging and done the work, I go in and we do the scenes, and the scenes happen to me, that's something that's so rare. It was something that I was trained in years and years ago when I had my only ingénue role. I don't know if we've spoken about this before, but in the Three Sisters we did up in Santa Maria and we were being directed by Alvina Krause. Her philosophy was, you learn the music that she was listening to, the book she was reading, the jewelry she wears, everything about her, and then, of course, the lines. You study about the character and all of that. But when you walk out on stage, if you've done all of that preparation, the play happens to you. And that's been the luxury of this experience, is doing all the hard work to create the character for the pilot and really flesh her out. To be able to march into that boardroom with confidence and to play this. And now that we've had all of these episodes, the work continues.
Each episode you've got to do the same kind of digging. But I've identified the engines which drive this character, and so I can go out there now, and for those moments to happen to me, and especially with Skye [P. Marshall, who plays Olympia], we have so many scenes together, and we trust each other so much, and it's been an unspoken trust, really. She's such a formidable actress that we can really fly together. Mary Vernieu is our casting director, and she has brought some magnificent guest stars in for us to work with, and I come out of some of those scenes just thinking, "Geez, what a privilege to work with this person that I never met or knew their name." And it's the work that brought them there. It's the work why we're sitting here. It's the work why they're focusing the cameras on it, the lights on it, the costumes, it's all focused on the work to make the story that people of all demographics can relate to. And that's what's been so exciting about it. It's about the work.
Well, I know one piece of work that we've never gotten from you but very much would like to see someday: a memoir. Do you think you would write one?
You know, I do think about it more lately. Possibly. When we did the Emmys and I got to see Giancarlo [Esposito], I hadn't seen him since the '80s, and I said, "Well, what are you doing?" And he rattled off like five different things. He's such a lovely man. He mentioned that he's working on a memoir. And I thought, "Oh my goodness." So it is a possibility. Maybe during a hiatus. Years and years and years ago I took a writing class with a wonderful teacher named Jack Grapes called "Finding the Deeper Voice," and I really had an opportunity to learn a lot from him. So I had this fantasy that if I could take the hiatus and not do something else, like a movie, and really have time that I might just hunker down and do some more writing. So,I'll let you know buddy.
