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Liz Cheney has said she overheard a "chilling" plan involving Donald Trump's lawyers and an alleged attempt to stop Vice President Mike Pence from ratifying the 2020 presidential election just days before rioters stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021.
Appearing on MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show, the former Wyoming congresswoman spoke about a part of her new book titled Oath and Honor: A Memoir and a Warning in which she said she heard Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis briefing "surrogates"—advisers close to Trump with license to defend him publicly—and describing a scenario in which Vice President Mike Pence would refuse to count the votes of the 2020 presidential election.
The alleged plan to have fake electors installed to give Pence cause to refuse the certification of the election, Cheney said, became clear to her during the call. "There had been talk [that] we were going to have these electors meet...but it wasn't clear to me what the contours of this particular part of the plan were until I dialed into that phone call," she said.
"Listening to them describe how these fake electors were going to be used and the fact that they anticipated that Vice President Pence was gonna use them to refuse to count the legitimate electors was certainly a moment of intense concern. As I got off that call I ran in the Capitol into the office of the parliamentarian of the House to say...'this is what I am hearing is going to happen...how do we stop this?' It was very clear there were not a lot of good answers to that."
The House parliamentarian provides nonpartisan guidance on parliamentary rules and procedures.
Cheney added that she found through the investigation of the January 6 committee—of which she was a member—that Pence and those close to him had been having "discussions" with the Senate parliamentarian. She said the call took place on January 4 and was a "dangerous and chilling moment."
According to a report by ABC News, Pence told special counsel Jack Smith that Trump had pushed the U.S. towards a "constitutional crisis."
The report also said that Pence wrote in his notes on Christmas Eve that he was "Not feeling like I should attend electoral count" as there were "Too many questions [and] too many doubts." Pence was also concerned it would be "hurtful" to a person described as his friend, likely Trump. "Therefore I'm not going to participate in certification of election," he added in the notes. Pence would eventually oversee the certification process.
Smith is behind two criminal indictments against Trump. The first was brought in Florida and relates to the alleged mishandling of classified documents, with the second regarding Trump's alleged conduct during the January 6 attack on the Capitol following the 2020 election. This case, brought in Washington, D.C, charged Trump with: conspiracy to defraud the United States; conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding; obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights.
The January 4 phone call, Cheney said, was briefed by former Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis. Ellis pleaded guilty to the charges against her in the Georgia election interference case. She admitted to a count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings under Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO).
In response to a request for comment, Ellis referred Newsweek to comments previously made to Politico. She said: "At no time did I advocate for overturning the election or that Mike Pence had the authority to do so. As part of my role as a campaign lawyer and counsel for President Trump, I explored legal options that might be available within the context of the U.S. Constitution and statutory law."
Newsweek has contacted representatives for Donald Trump for comment.
Ellis and Trump were among 19 people charged under RICO in Fulton County, Georgia, in a sprawling indictment that laid out an alleged conspiracy to overturn the results in the state. Trump denies all of the charges against him.
In response to her book early Tuesday morning, Trump branded her "crazy Liz Cheney" and slammed her recollection that former Speaker Kevin McCarthy went to visit Trump because he was "depressed and not eating."
"That statement is not true," Trump said. "I was not depressed, I WAS ANGRY, and it was not that I was not eating, it was that I was eating too much. But that's not why Keven McCarthy was there. He was at Mar-a-Lago to get my support, and to bring the Republican Party together—Only good intentions."
Newsweek has contacted Kevin McCarthy for comment.
Update 12/5/23, 11:36 a.m. ET: This story was updated with a response from Jenna Ellis.
About the writer
Benjamin Lynch is a Newsweek reporter based in London, U.K. His focus is U.S. politics and national affairs and he ... Read more