Law Professor Warns That a Trump Pardon Will Not Save Sondland If He Lies Under Oath

Fordham University law professor Jed Shugerman took to Twitter on Wednesday morning to weigh in on U.S. Ambassador Gordon Sondland's upcoming testimony in the public impeachment hearing. Ahead of the diplomat's appearance before the House Intelligence Committee, Shugerman laid out why lying to shield the president and hoping for a pardon in return would be "a bad idea."

"Pardon's don't affect state law," he stated as his first reason as to why Sondland shouldn't lie. If Sondland were to commit perjury, he could be pardoned by federal law, but that would still not excuse him from being prosecuted in New York state.

In the same tweet, Shugerman also noted that New York state laws on extortion and conspiracy would apply, because he called Rudy Giuliani—the president's personal lawyer, who allegedly ran a shadow foreign policy focused on pressuring Ukraine to investigate Trump's political rival—in New York.

Shugerman shared excerpts of New York laws regarding extortion and conspiracy. One law points out that any conspiracy to commit a punishable offense outside of New York can be prosecuted in New York, as long as that agreement is made in New York.

Shugerman went on to outline the definition of federal bribery. That law spells out that bribery is the act of a public official—Trump, in Shugerman's assessment— offering something of value—military aid that was being withheld—in order to influence an official act, influence the public official, or force the official to turn a blind eye to illegal activity. "The 'thing of value' from Ukraine would've been a negative campaign hit or investigation/oppo research against Biden," Shugerman wrote.

Before pointing out that New York qualifies extortion as a form of larceny, Shugerman also noted that others have suggested charging Trump under the Hobbs Act, a federal law used to combat racketeering, extortion and conspiracy. "But federal bribery is sufficient," Shugerman tweeted.

Shugerman also saw the withholding of aid as a form of extortion. In another tweet, he spelled out the New York extortion law. "The most relevant form is 'compel[ling] or induc[ing] another person to deliver such property... by means of instilling in him a fear that if the property is not so delivered, the actor ...will perform an act...which is calculated to harm another person materially w/respect to his health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships,'" he tweeted, noting that the opposition research Trump sought would classify as "property," in accordance with New York State law.

In Shugerman's estimation, Giuliani's communication from New York with his associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, about their dealings in Ukraine is enough to convict the three in the state. "If Sondland talked to Giuliani in NYC by phone/text during conspiracy, that's likely enough for probable cause, too," Shugerman concluded.