Tuesday's Hearing Will Explore Pressure on State Legislatures

The House Jan. 6 Committee will hold its next public hearing on June 21, C-SPAN said on Thursday.

The committee's fourth public hearing is slated to begin at 1 p.m. ET. As with earlier hearings, C-SPAN will air the June 21 hearing live.

As the committee's third day of public hearings began wrapping up on Thursday, Representative Liz Cheney of Wyoming during her closing statement gave a brief preview of what she said the public can expect from upcoming hearings. They will examine the pressure she said former President Donald Trump and his team tried to place on state officials to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

The hearings so far have shown that "President Trump knew that his claims of a stolen election were false" and that his team "knew that Mike pence could not legally refuse to count electoral votes," Cheney said. They also demonstrated the pressure the former president placed on Pence to take "illegal action," she added.

In future hearings, "you will see information about President Trump's efforts, John Eastman's efforts, the Trump legal team's efforts, to apply pressure to Republican state legislatures, state officials and others," Cheney said.

"A man who loved his country more than himself would have conceded this election," she said in closing. "Indeed, we know that a number of President Trump's closest aides urged him to do so. This committee will address all of these issues in greater detail in the coming weeks."

Trump, Allies Pose 'Clear and Present Danger' to Democracy: Luttig

As the third day of the House Jan. 6 Committee began wrapping up, Chair Bennie Thompson invited J. Michael Luttig, a retired judge and informal adviser to former Vice President Mike Pence, to "share your thoughts" on the "ongoing threats" facing American democracy.

Luttig was one of two witnesses called to testify before the committee on Thursday.

Thompson referenced an opinion piece Luttig wrote a few months ago for The New York Times. Luttig began the article, which was published on February 14, 2022, by writing the "clear and present danger" facing American democracy involves plans by former President Donald Trump and his allies looking ahead to the 2024 presidential election.

More than a year after the events on January 6, 2021, Luttig said "still Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present danger to American democracy."

But they do not pose a threat because of what happened on January 6, Luttig said.

"It's because, to this very day, the former president, his allies, and his supporters pledge that in the presidential election of 2024, if the former president or his anointed successor as the Republican Party presidential candidate were to lose that election, that they would attempt to overturn that 2024 election in the same way that they attempted to overturn the 2020 election, but succeed in 2024 where they failed in 2020," Luttig said.

Luttig said he was not raising this point "lightly." However, "that's what the former president and his allies are telling us," he said.

Eastman Didn't Get Pardon, Pleaded Fifth 100 Times

Attorney John Eastman asked for a pardon after it was determined that Donald Trump officially lost the 2020 presidential election.

Days after Jan. 6, Eastman emailed Trump's counsel, Rudy Giuliani, to put him on the presidential pardon list, Representative Pete Aguilar said during Thursday's Day 3 of the Jan. 6 Committee hearings.

"I've decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works," Eastman wrote to Giuliani.

Eastman did not get a pardon.

Trump's White House attorney, Eric Herschmann, told the Committee in his deposition that he told Eastman to "get a good criminal defense lawyer."

"You're gonna need it," he told Eastman.

Later, Eastman was asked to give a deposition in front of the committee.

During questioning, Eastman invoked the Fifth Amendment 100 times, refusing to answer any questions, Aguilar said.

Informant Said Proud Boys 'Would Have Killed' Pence

Members of the Proud Boys who were at the U.S. Capitol Building on the day of the January 6 riot "would have killed Mike Pence" if they had the chance to do so, Representative Pete Aguilar of California said Thursday.

While questioning witnesses during the House Jan. 6 Committee's third day of public hearings, Aguilar outlined Pence's movements on January 6, 2021, after rioters breached the Capitol.

At one point, Pence and his team were only about 40 feet away from rioters, Aguilar said.

Greg Jacob, the former White House lawyer who advised Pence and was with Pence that day, said he was unaware of how close the rioters were to reaching them.

"Make no mistake about the fact that the vice president's life was in danger," Aguilar said. He brought up a recent Department of Justice court filing, in which a confidential informant had told the FBI about the Proud Boys' plans for that day.

The informant "told the FBI the Proud Boys would have killed Mike Pence if given a chance," Aguilar said.

The informant "stated that other members of the group talked about things they did that day, and they said that anyone they got their hands on, they would have killed, including [House Speaker] Nancy Pelosi," Aguilar said.

The witness "further stated that members of the Proud Boys said they would have killed Mike Pence if given a chance," the congressman added.

'I Don't Want to Be Your Friend Anymore,' Trump Told Pence

Representative Pete Aguilar quoted a passage from Bob Woodward and Robert Costa's book Peril about the transition between the Trump and Biden administrations.

After Pence's team determined he could not do anything to block the certification of the election, the vice president met with Donald Trump in the Oval Office.

According to the book, Trump asked Pence that if these people say you have the power [to overturn the election], "wouldn't you want to?"

Pence said he wouldn't want any one person to have that authority, to which Trump said, "wouldn't it almost be cool to have that power?"

Pence reportedly told Trump that he exhausted every option to "get around this" and he could not see a way to do it.

"It's simply not possible," Pence said.

Trump then told Pence he "can do this," adding, "I don't want to be your friend anymore if you don't do this."

Trump later released a statement on January 5 saying he and Pence were "in total agreement that the Vice President has the power to act" to block the certification of electoral votes.

Greg Jacob, Pence's former counsel, said that statement was false.

"We were shocked and disappointed because whoever had written and put that statement out, it was categorically untrue," he told the committee.

Pence's former chief of staff, Marc Short, also said the statement was false.

He added that he wanted to tell the head of Pence's secret service that "likely, as these disagreements became more public, that the president would lash out in some way."

Aguilar said Short was right: Pence was in danger.

Eastman Requested Pence Reject Electors on Jan. 5: Jacob

John Eastman, a former attorney for former President Donald Trump, requested that former Vice President Mike Pence reject electors for disputed 2020 election results a handful of U.S. states, according to Greg Jacob.

Jacob, the former White House lawyer who advised Pence, testified during the House Jan. 6 Committee's Thursday hearing about meetings he had with Eastman in the days leading up to the Capitol riot on January 6, 2021.

While Jacob recalled Eastman saying during a January 4 meeting that it would be best to suspend the joint congressional session and send disputed election results back to the states, Jacob said Eastman's position changed the following day.

"What most surprised me about that meeting was, when Mr. Eastman came in, he said, 'I'm here to request that you reject the electors,'" Jacob said, noting it was the move Eastman had said he was not recommending just one day earlier.

"But on the fifth, he came in and expressly requested that," Jacob said. "And I grabbed a notebook, because I was heading into the meeting. I didn't hear much new from him to record, but that first thing I recorded in my notes was, request that the VP reject."

The committee later showed an image of the notes Jacob took that day. On the first line of text beneath the headline Jacobs wrote for the day's notes, he had written: "Requesting VP reject."

Luttig Says 12th Amendment Was Clear on Pence's Authority

Retired Judge J. Michael Luttig said John Eastman's theory about Mike Pence overturning the electoral votes was "incorrect at every turn."

He said the vice president cannot unilaterally decide not the count the votes from disputed states.

"There is no basis in the Constitution or laws at all for the theory espoused by Eastman," he said. "At all, none."

He added that the 12th Amendment was "pristine clear" about the role of the president of the Senate, the vice president, during certification.

Luttig said the amendment says only that the vice president opens the certificates in the presence of a joint Congress and then the votes are counted. It does not say that the vice president counts the votes.

Greg Jacob, Pence's former counsel, disagreed slightly, saying that the 12th Amendment is not as unambiguous as Luttig said.

Jacob said he reviewed the text of the Constitution, structure and history when determining what can be done about the electoral vote certification.

He said the Electoral Count Act of 1887 said unambiguously that the vice president has no authority to reject or object to electors.

In talks with Pence, Jacob said the vice president's first instinct was "decisive."

"There is just no way that the framers of the Constitution...would have put in the hands of one person the authority to determine who was going to be president of the United States," he said.

After the team's review of text, history and "common sense" confirmed Pence's instinct.

There was no law saying the vice president had that authority and there was never an instance when the joint session of Congress returned votes to the states to be recounted.

"There is no justifiable basis to conclude that the vice president has that kind of authority," Jacob said.

Jacob later said that Eastman knew his theory was not valid and would violate the Electoral Count Act.

He said he spoke to Eastman on January 5, 2021, telling him that if Pence went through with what Eastman was proposing, they would "lose nine nothing" if it was challenged in the Supreme Court.

He said Eastman eventually acknowledged that the action would lose.

Jacob also said Eastman told him that Al Gore didn't have the basis to overturn the election results in 2000 and Kamala Harris shouldn't be able to do that in 2024. But, he told Jacob, "I think you should do it today."

'Constitutional Crisis' if Pence Obeyed Trump, Luttig Says

Representative Liz Cheney opened her line of questioning Thursday by asking J. Micahel Luttig, a retired judge and informal adviser to former Vice President Mike Pence, about a sentence included in Luttig's prepared statement for the House Jan. 6 Committee.

CNN obtained a copy of Luttig's full statement shortly before the committee's third day of public hearings began Thursday afternoon.

The sentence Cheney asked Luttig about says, "Had the Vice President of the United States obeyed the President of the United States, America would immediately have been plunged into what would have been tantamount to a revolution within a paralyzing constitutional crisis."

When Cheney asked Luttig to elaborate on that line within his statement, Luttig said it "referenced the most foundational concept in America," which he added is "the rule of law."

Luttig said that if Pence had "obeyed the orders" of Trump by declaring him the next president despite losing the Electoral College and popular votes, that decision "would have plunged America into what I believe would have been tantamount to a revolution within a constitutional crisis in America."

Luttig added the hypothetical constitutional crisis he outlined "would have been the first constitutional crisis since the founding of the republic."

Thompson says we are 'fortunate for Pence's courage'

To begin the third Jan. 6 hearing, House Select Committee Chair Bennie Thompson quoted former Vice President Mike Pence.

"There is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president," Thompson said.

Pence said it during remarks at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library days after the election certification.

Thompson said former President Donald Trump tried to pressure Pence into going along with the "unconstitutional scheme" to give Trump a second term that he did not win.

Pence resisted that pressure, knowing this was "illegal" and "wrong."

That courage, Thompson said, put Pence in real danger.

"We are fortunate for Mr. Pence's courage on January 6," he said. "Our democracy came dangerously close to catastrophe."

When Pence refused, Thompson said Trump turned the violent mob on Pence, as protesters chanted "hang Mike Pence" outside of the Capitol on Jan. 6.

"Thanks to Pence, Democracy withstood Trump's scheme," Thompson said. "We are fortunate for Mr. Pence's courage."

Republican Committee member Liz Cheney said Trump was repeatedly told that Pence could not overturn the election results.

What the president wanted the vice president to do was not just wrong. It was illegal, and it was unconstitutional," she said.

She quoted the federal court, which said it was more likely than not Trump and his advisor John Eastman "dishonestly conspired to obstruct" the Congress session on Jan. 6.

"Vice President Pence understood that his oath of office was more important than his loyalty to Donald Trump," she said. "He did his duty. President Trump, unequivocally, did not."

Cheney said the hearing will examine when Trump's efforts to pressure Pence and when exactly the former president knew Pence could not do what he wanted.

WATCH: Third Jan. 6 hearing to focus on Trump pressuring Pence

The third hearing from the House Select Committee on the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot is set to begin soon.

The hearing will focus on former President Donald Trump's efforts to pressure Vice President Mike Pence into overturning the 2020 presidential election.

Pence's former lawyer, Greg Jacob, and retired U.S. Court of Appeals Judge J. Michael Luttig are expected to testify.

The hearing will begin at 1 p.m. ET and will stream live on CSPAN and the Jan. 6 Committee website and YouTube.

Committee Interested in Speaking with Ginni Thomas

The House Select Committee on Jan. 6 is interested in speaking with Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

"We think it's time that we would, at some point, invite her to come talk to the committee," Committee Chair Bennie Thompson told reporters Thursday. He said the committee wants to talk to Thomas "soon."

There have been calls for the committee to subpoena Virginia "Ginni" Thomas amid reports that she emailed Donald Trump's campaign lawyer, John Eastman.

Eastman is alleged to have played a key part in trying to pressure former Vice President Mike Pence to not certify the 2020 election results in Congress on Jan. 6, despite knowing such a tactic would be illegal.

The panel investigating the Jan. 6 attack obtained emails between Thomas and Eastman. Three unnamed people involved in the committee told The Washington Post that the emails reveal Thomas' effort to overturn the 2020 election results were greater than previously known, but they did not expand on the details.

Thomas was previously alleged to have texted White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows urging him to prevent Joe Biden from becoming president, claiming the 2020 presidential election was "the greatest Heist of our History."

She is also alleged to have emailed a number of Republican Arizona lawmakers asking them to try to overturn the election results days after Biden was declared the winner in the state.

Trump 'on the Hook for Treason,' Glenn Kirschner Says

Former President Donald Trump is "on the hook for treason," according to former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner.

Speaking on The Dean Obeidallah Show ahead of the third day of the House Jan. 6 Committee's public hearings, the legal analyst said the evidence against Trump leading up to and during the Capitol riot on January 6 "is all there" and has been presented by the committee using "almost exclusively Republican voices" and witnesses.

Kirschner described the evidence against Trump as "clear and overwhelming."

"I also believe he is responsible for inciting the insurrection, I believe he is responsible for seditious conspiracy, and I happen to believe he is on the hook for treason, because he levied war against the United States, against the Democratic process, against the certification of Joe Biden's win on January 6," Kirschner said.

"He sent his attack dogs to stop the certification, sent them to the Capitol, he refused to call them off for more than three hours, and we also know he refused to send reinforcements to defend the Capitol against the attack he had launched. He put everyone's lives in danger at the Capitol that day," Kirschner said.

Kirschner went on to suggest that Trump's actions on January 6 matched "the very definition" of treason committed against the U.S.

"Donald Trump is on the hook for treason," he said.

Kirschner has offered his opinions on the public hearings since the committee began hosting them late last week. Speaking with The ReidOut host Joy-Ann Reid on MSNBC last week, Kirschner described the former president's actions as "treason squared."

Delaware Father, Son Found Guilty of Felony, Misdemeanor Charges

Two Delaware men were found guilty of felony and misdemeanor charges for their actions during the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021.

Kevin Seefried and his son, Hunter, were found guilty of felony offense of obstruction of an official proceeding and four misdemeanor offenses, including entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds; disorderly and disruptive conduct in a Capitol Building; disorderly conduct in a Capitol Building, and parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol Building, according to the Department of Justice (DOJ).

"Their actions and the actions of others disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress convened to ascertain and count the electoral votes related to the presidential election," the DOJ said in a press release Wednesday.

The father and son attended a rally near the Ellipse on Jan. 6, 2021, then marched to the Capitol Building.

They "illegally entered the Capitol grounds and joined a crowd of rioters heading up the steps of the building," the DOJ said. People near the Seefrieds broke windows with a police shield and a wooden 2-by-4. Hunter cleared the glass from the windows and then the Seefrieds entered the building with others.

Kevin was photographed inside the building holding a large Confederate flag. They were also part of the group that chased U.S. Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman and verbally confronted several U.S. Capitol Police officers near the entrance to the Senate Chambers, according to the DOJ.

Kevin and Hunter Seefried will be sentences on September 16 and September 23, respectively. They face a maximum of 20 years in prison and financial penalties for the felony charge and a combined maximum of three years in prison for the misdemeanors.

Dick Durbin Calls Hearings 'Convincing,' 'Historic'

Democratic Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois said the House Select Committee on Jan. 6 has presented a "very convincing case" so far in the hearings.

"They have collected a mountain of evidence and they are presenting it in a very thoughtful way, an organized way," he said on MSNBC on Thursday morning.

Durbin said he watched the first hearing from "start to finish." He said he knew most of the facts presented but noted several revelations that were presented "because of [the committee's] good work."

As the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Durbin said they have turned over some work they've done to the Jan. 6 Committee.

"This is historic," he said. "It is important that we pay close attention to it."

Durbin also praised Representatives Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney, the only two Republicans on the Jan. 6 Committee, for their "political courage" in "stepping up to make sure the American people know the facts."

The Senate tried to set up a bipartisan committee on Jan. 6, but Republicans refused to cooperate, Durbin said.

He said Republicans are afraid of Donald Trump and his impact on the primaries.

"If he turns on them, they can lose their political office and they're not prepared to do that," he said. "Even at the expense of not being credible to the rest of the country."

Durbin added that he hopes the Department of Justice and the attorney general are watching the hearings closely.

He said the "mountain of evidence" is conclusive enough to him to warrant criminal charges.

"I hope that those who have to make the decision for criminal culpability see it the same way," he added.

Marjorie Taylor Greene Says Liz Cheney has 'gone too far'

Ahead of the third Jan. 6 hearing, Republican representatives are taking aim at accusations made by the House Select Committee investigating the Capitol riot.

Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene showed her support for fellow Georgia representative, Barry Loudermilk, who gave a tour of the Capitol the day before the riot.

Loudermilk said he has received death threats due to the House Committee's "smears and false accusations" against him.

Greene called on Republican member of the Committee Liz Cheney of Wyoming to leave the House Republican conference because she has "gone too far."

"Barry Loudermilk NEVER did anything wrong," she said in a tweet. "This is unforgivable."

The committee released a letter it sent to Loudermilk requesting he meet with the lawmakers about evidence of a tour he gave on Jan. 5, 2021, the day before the riot.

"That groups stayed for several hours, despite the complex being closed to the public that day," the letter said.

The committee said some of the people on the tour attended the rally at the Ellipse the morning of Jan. 6 and later marched to the Capitol.

Public reporting and witness accounts indicate some individuals and groups engaged in efforts to gather information about the layout of the Capitol and Senate and House offices ahead of the riot, the letter said.

The Committee also released surveillance footage showing the tour Loudermilk gave. A man is seen photographing security points and stairwells.

Loudermilk said the committee is "doubling down on their smear campaign" after the Capitol Police "already put this false accusation to bed."

He said the Capitol Police confirmed "nothing about this visit with constituents was suspicious."

Loudermilk said the people on the tour were talking pictures of children's artwork, not tunnels and said children in the group wanted to see the "little trains," referring to the small subway system that connects the U.S. Capitol building to several adjacent House and Senate office buildings.

"This false narrative that the Committee and Democrats continue to push, that Republicans, including myself, led reconnaissance tours is verifiably false," Loudermilk said in a series of tweets. "No where that I went with the visitors in the House Office Buildings on January 5th were breached on January 6th and, to my knowledge, no one in that group was criminally charged in relation to January 6th."

Loudermilk also alleged that the Committee released the letter to the press but never contacted him or his team.

Hearings Have Shown 'Conclusive' Evidence of Crimes: Dick Durbin

Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, joined Morning Joe on Thursday to discuss the hearings so far.

The Democrat was asked if he had yet seen evidence of crimes from the hearings.

"The mountain of evidence that they are presenting to us, I think is conclusive to me personally," he said. "I hope those who have to make the decision on criminal culpability see it the same way."

Department of Justice prosecutors will ultimately decide whether or not Donald Trump should be prosecuted over events on and around January 6.

Trump WH Lawyer: 'You Out of Your F***ing Mind?'

Liz Cheney offered a short preview about Thursday's hearing earlier this week.

A video clip, which has been watched more than 5 million times since Tuesday, the January 6 panel member revealed part of Eric Herschmann's deposition.

The Trump White House lawyer said he asked the then-president's legal adviser, John Eastman, "Are you out of your f***ing mind?" during a phone call in the aftermath of January 6.

Watch the clip below.

Mike Pence's Known Movements on Jan. 6

(All times ET)

1 p.m.: Pence begins joint session to certify election results.

1:45 p.m.: Riot officially declared as Trump supporters storm Capitol.

2:14 p.m.: Pence removed from the Senate by Secret Service.

2:24 p.m.: Trump tweets that Pence "didn't have the courage to do what should have been done" and stop the results from being certified.

By this point, Pence is now believed to be in the room just off the Senate floor with his family, as seen in a photo obtained by ABC News.

Minutes later, agents escorted Pence and his family to an underground loading dock beneath the Capitol, where they remained for several hours.

4:08 p.m.: Pence phoned Acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller, urging him to "clear the Capitol."

About 8 p.m.: Capitol declared secure and Pence reconvened the Senate.